Star Trek: Discovery, Season 2 Week 9 (Episode 9) Weekly Discussion Thread

[Jules Sherred]

Tonight, or tomorrow if you live outside of Canada and the USA, after Project Daedalus airs/drops, come back here and let me know your thoughts/ruminations.

My GeekDad post will go up on Sunday. I will start writing it at about 2 pm PDT/ 5 pm EDT/ 9 pm GMT/ on Saturday so you have until then to participate in the conversation if you want your input in the article.

If you don’t want what you say included in the article, just let me know!

I won’t be able to watch tonight’s episode until pretty late, so I’ll hop in the conversation tomorrow.

LLAP!

"Logic Is The Beginning Of Wisdom, Not The End." -Leonard Nimoy

[G.H. Brothers]

Starting now! Super excited. 🙂

[G.H. Brothers]

My initial reaction throughout tonight’s episode was that there was a LOOOOOOOOOT going on. To an almost detrimental extent. You can’t juggle all those plot lines at once without making a bit of a mess. Then. The end came. And the absolute silence, except for the waves, during the credits. 1:04-1:10 of this clip is the absolute first thing that went through my head.

 

[Jules Sherred]

@g-h-brothers Yeah, that’s the problem with only having 14 episodes per season: They have to fit in a lot of things in just over half the episodes of a full-length season and it can be too much for one episode.

Despite that, I enjoyed this episode. I really enjoyed Spock’s lecture to Burnham about instead of dealing with the emotions of what happened to her as a child, she places all burdens upon herself. That is also something very indicative of complex post traumatic stress.

The other thing that caught my brain was the central computer thinger (I need to rewatch the episode to remember the name unless you remember it to tell me) and Airium fit into a theory proposed last week that Airium is a precurser to the Borg. The central computer was described with the same characteristics as the Borg Queen. Who knows where Airium ends up and with her cybernetic implants if she is actually dead. She may end up in the Delta quadrant. The Borg also has the same end-game as what the Red Angel shows Spock: To get rid of all sentient life. The Borg don’t qualify as sentient because of their collective consciousnesses.

But if she and the central computer are the beginnings of the Borg, then we know the Red Angel isn’t successful because of events in TNG and on.

"Logic Is The Beginning Of Wisdom, Not The End." -Leonard Nimoy

[G.H. Brothers]

So interesting that you mention the Borg, because that’s ALL I could think about with the probe a week or two ago. And all this talk of learning every possible strategy in order to conquer sounds a hell of a lot like their adaptive capabilities also. Plus the time travel bit (ST:FC), the fact that they come from the far-flung reaches of the Delta quadrant, so teleportation (or using a transwarp conduit that makes it LOOK like teleportation) would be useful… hadn’t really considered any of this before now.

[Jules Sherred]

So I decided to Google Project Daedalus. It was a real thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Daedalus

The bit that got me was that it was supposed to be self-replicating. What if this is another thing like VGER? What if in Star Trek the variant Project Daedalus actually happened:

A quantitative engineering analysis of a self-replicating variation on Project Daedalus was published in 1980 by Robert Freitas.[8] The non-replicating design was modified to include all subsystems necessary for self-replication. Use the probe to deliver a seed factory, with a mass of about 443 metric tons, to a distant site. Have the seed factory replicate many copies of itself on-site, to increase its total manufacturing capacity, then use the resulting automated industrial complex to construct probes, with a seed factory on board, over a 1,000-year period. Each REPRO would weigh over 10 million tons due to the extra fuel needed to decelerate from 12% of lightspeed.

And Section 31 found this evolved self-replicating project after Earth lost track of it after WWIII (when Earth lost track of a lot of interstellar stuff), they decided to play with the tech, and the Borg eventually becomes the result?

 

"Logic Is The Beginning Of Wisdom, Not The End." -Leonard Nimoy

[G.H. Brothers]

I’ve ALWAYS thought it would be amazing if V’Ger had something to do with the Borg. In fact, that’s the story I continue to tell myself! Haha It also reminds me pretty heavily of a two-parter featured on ‘The Orville’ recently (I know it’s anathema to mention that show around here, so apologies). As neat as the thought is, and as much evidence as we can supply to support it, I really hope that’s not where this is going. ‘Enterprise’ shoehorning in a Borg cameo left a bad taste in my mouth. Sometimes it’s best to leave the mystery in place, especially for a monster like the Borg. There are so many original, untread places this story can go, and I’d like to experience something fresh and new. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[Jules Sherred]

To be pedantic, VGer was the result of an actual thing we sent in space. Daedalus was a grand idea. What if that grand idea became reality? I, too, hope they don’t go full Borg, but I wouldn’t mind if they strongly hint with some flash-forward into the future on Enterprise-D’s first encounter with the Borg. Kinda like how they used “The Cage” footage for Previous On.

I actually want a canon explanation for the Borg because I’m tired of arguing with people who think the novels are canon LOL

"Logic Is The Beginning Of Wisdom, Not The End." -Leonard Nimoy

[Ani Hatzis]

The end of episode 9 came like a punch, and I was emotionally touched like I have only been by Star Trek when I watched the final episode of DS9 and even more so the final episode of Voyager (the scene with Janeway and Tuvok made me cry).

I believe the effect would have been even more intense if Discovery seasons would have more episodes. Imagine they could spend more time on personal stories of bridge officers like Airium. It’s better than in the first season though.

There was a dialog between Spock and Stamets, where Stamets asked what made Spock so special that the Red Angel has chosen him. And it makes me believe that future Burnham could be the angel.

Oh, and I have also realized something else, finally. Burnham reminds me of my best friend I had during elementary school. She was in the same way extremely smart, tough, and assertive, always had the best grades.

 

[Jules Sherred]

@ani-hatzis I’m curious to know if you also have a theory as to why Burnham would go back in time? Also, why would she still be alive that far into the future to be able to come back? That is the one part about this theory that doesn’t quite sit with me: The Red Angel is from pretty far into the future, not the near future.

"Logic Is The Beginning Of Wisdom, Not The End." -Leonard Nimoy

[Ani Hatzis]

Well, what strikes me is to whom would Spock be so special? It could be anyone on the Enterprise or anyone Spock meets during his career after Enterprise. But why would one of them give him visions as a child? So I believe it could be only someone from his family. And who knew that Burnham was in danger when she left her home? That’s probably noone but Burnham and Spock. So my new theory is that Burnham saved herself by giving Spock as a kid the first visions, so he could warn her. I’m aware this is some paradox self-referencing causality here, but logically consistent, I believe.

Not sure how they would pull it off dramaturgically, but maybe this isn’t Michael living in a distant future, but today’s Michael who travels into the future and discovers the outcome after Control destroyed all sentient existence in the universe. With that knowledge Discovery is able to destroy Control before it can amass this kind of power. Maybe they use the same way like the probe that Spike and Stamets have launched and which returned from the future as some evil intelligent weapon. Well, lots of speculation of course.

What’s your thoughts?

• This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by Ani Hatzis.

[Jules Sherred]

I’m not really sure. The Red Angel also saved the inhabitants of New Eden and brought them to another planet. Why would Burnham do that? How would future Burnham know the truth of Kaminar? There are other events that don’t fit the Burnham theory. The writers are very good about not introducing puzzle pieces unless they fit an important part of the plot. Nothing is introduced simply to introduce it. For a bit, I thought it could be Sarek but for the same reasons it doesn’t fit Burnham, it doesn’t fit Sarek.

The one thing I do like about all of us throwing around theories is this season, it isn’t blatantly obvious like the “surprise” reveals of last season *cough* Lorca *cough* *cough* Voq/Tyler *cough*.

Someone also proposed Janeway a few weeks ago, and Janeway would totally fit if Control is a precursor to the Borg.

"Logic Is The Beginning Of Wisdom, Not The End." -Leonard Nimoy

[Ani Hatzis]

I admit that without others posting their theories about Lorca and Voq/Tyler in our G+ community, I wouldn’t have thought about it until it was made obvious.

I would think that when Michael travels into the future, she would know everything that already happened, so she would know about New Eden and Kaminar in the same kind as she knew about that monster that was going to kill her as a kid. Still I think that you are right about New Eden, because it seems a bit off. Although they still have the database retrieved from the Sphere, I’m certain that there are reasons why these locations of the seven signals have been chosen, as much as why little Spock was chosen. I have no good idea so far.

 

[Jules Sherred]

Another thing I forgot to mention, Captain Pike is quickly becoming my favourite captain and it’s going to suck when he’s back on the Enterprise. There was that line from Cornwell about how Pike represents everything that is good about the Federation after he figured out the real reason the Enterprise was deployed elsewhere during the war. The object he raised had me yell, PREACH!

"Logic Is The Beginning Of Wisdom, Not The End." -Leonard Nimoy

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