Home Forums Star Trek TV Series Star Trek: DSC Star Trek: Discovery, Season 2 Week 12 (Episode 12) Weekly Discussion Thread

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  • #2595
    Jules Sherred
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    You know the drill!

    Hopefully, I can actually comment tomorrow and not get stuck in work.

    I’ll be starting to write the GeekDad post on Saturday at around 2 pm PDT/ 10 pm BDT. So, if you want your comments included in the post, be sure to comment by then.

    LLAP

    "Logic Is The Beginning Of Wisdom, Not The End." -Leonard Nimoy

  • #2601
    Jules Sherred
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    Okay. This episode was another good episode and if it ends up that Control isn’t the beginnings of the Borg, I think I’m going to be pretty angry because there are just too many similarities, especially when it comes to assimilation and identifying threats and neutralizing them.

    I really enjoyed Spock and Burnham calling each other Brother/Sister as a sign that they have fully reconciled.

    The way they incorporated “The Menagerie” was brilliant. With only a couple of episodes left, and after the choice Pike made (which of course we knew he was going to make) solidifies him as my favourite captain. I don’t think I need two more episodes to crown him such.

    The ending though, do we really think they are going to blow up the damn ship? We know there is going to be a Season 3. Blowing it up solves some issues people have been having about why we don’t hear about the Discovery in TOS, but what ship will they be on for Season 3 of Discovery? I mean, the series is named after the ship, like all the various series.

    I also have a lot to say this week moving through trauma and entering the fight response stage once one reaches a certain point of coming to terms with living with post traumatic stress. I don’t want to call it healing because that adds to stigma but I can’t think of a better word right now.

    Anywho, I hope @ani-hatzis and @g-h-brothers who both have a chance to chime in within the next 6 hours (I’m pushing back my writing time by an hour) so I have an article to write this week LOL

    "Logic Is The Beginning Of Wisdom, Not The End." -Leonard Nimoy

  • #2608
    G.H. Brothers
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    A few scattered thoughts in no particular order:

    1. 1000% agree regarding Captain Pike. I’ve been in mourning since the halfway point of the season after realizing the exact same thing, because we know we’re losing him at the end of the season.

    2. I’m still annoyed that it looks more and more like we’re doing a Borg origin story. Monsters are always so much more frightening when their details are left in the shadows of the imagination.

    3. The dedication to character arcs is extremely commendable, and I can think of no better example than that of Saru. Watching him very coolly and calmly approve Burnham’s mission without a second’s hesitation, in a conversation that only took maybe 2-3 minutes, speaks entire volumes about how far we’ve seen this character come. I got an acute sense of satisfaction from that.

    4. Burnham and Spock reconciling was a good moment, but it muddies the water even further about why he or his father never mentioned her. And I know, I know, I know, we’ve been promised that it’ll all make sense later, but it’s still strange to me.

    5. I pity the new generation of fans who are watching this as their first Trek, and have absolutely NO clue what a big deal many elements of this season have been. Seeing the Talosians, the foreshadowing of Pike’s fate, etc. As a huge fan of TOS, and those characters probably being my favorites (with Spock firmly in the #1 spot), all the homage that’s been paid is lovely. Just like I loved seeing the old bridge in TNG’s ‘Relics,’ or seeing my other favorite crew from DS9 go full 23rd century in ‘Trials and Tribble-ations.’ It never gets old. Now I’m waiting for the Enterprise uniforms to become standard issue throughout the fleet, so I can see them every week!

    6. Mary Chieffo absolutely owns the character of L’Rell and is a delight to watch. Only Robert O’Reilly’s gleeful embrace of all Gowron’s insanity is in that class for me.

    7. I was THRILLED to finally see Reno again. She’s been woefully underused this season, but the scene she had with Culber almost made up for that entirely. Very touching, and superbly executed.

     

    I think that’s pretty much it for now. 🙂

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  G.H. Brothers.
    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  G.H. Brothers.
    • #2611
      Jules Sherred
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      I can’t believe I forgot to mention Reno! I love how she used losing her partner (Canadian for any long-term relationship, including Spouse, not just same-sex marriages and relationships) to get through to Stamets. I also liked how they so seamlessly introduced another queer character. It’s exactly how any cishet relationship would have been introduced.

      "Logic Is The Beginning Of Wisdom, Not The End." -Leonard Nimoy

  • #2613
    Ani Hatzis
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    I haven’t noticed what I actually watched after the canteen at the first run, I had to rewind. How Stamets observes Culber had me daydreaming for a while. Hah, I know Stamets’ feeling in this situation so much. How painful it is to see how someone you love and who is out of reach can go on with his life, while you petty puppy are suffering. And then I’ve thought about the situations where I was in Culber’s role, and I felt even worse. To me, this scene had the biggest impact as far as it comes to this episode.

    I’ve enjoyed the scenes with Reno, she is just such a great character. She had only a few appearances so far, but they all are on point. I can’t put my finger on, but she feels very familiar to me. Not sure if that’s just me, because maybe she remembers me of someone. The dialog of her with Culber was very authentic, touching, and funny. I guess revealing she was in a relationship with a woman will trigger the usual folks.

    I just noticed that we have only two episodes left… and I feel that there is so much more I want to see from this crew. The seasons are so short. It’s a good thing that this episode spent a lot of time with the other characters, Captain Pike in particular. I got almost anxiety by listening to the sound of that machine. Do you agree that the shot of his injured face, together with this sound, could be the scariest thing ever shown on a Star Trek show? Is this feeling only because I grew fond of him (thanks to TOS and Discovery)? And that vision Pike sees, is that supposed to be the Discovery? If so, does it mean that we got a glimpse of a big show-down at the season finale? Maybe it is the battle against Control that seals his fate. And that of Discovery. But even if she is blowing up, they could just build a new ship with the same name, couldn’t they?

    Although I think your theories regarding Control and the Borg make some sense, and could be explained somehow, time travel and such, still I doubt they are really connected. The Borg originated from the Delta quadrant and they needed many centuries to reach the level when they finally crossed ways with Star Fleet, didn’t they? Why would they assimilate ships and settlements as shown before, when they could just infiltrate their enemies so easily as Control can do. While the hive mind would still make sense, what’s up with the borg queen? So, I don’t rule out that Control is predecessor to the Borg, but I don’t really think they are related.

    Something rather irrelevant: This episode again shows the production quality everywhere. Just a small detail… when the shuttle of Michael and Spock leaves Discovery’s hangar. That’s a scene often shown in the previous Star Trek shows, but this looked so good and realistic. Also the monastery, so beautifully done. In regard of production value, the difference between Discovery and all other shows is day and night. It seems to me that they spend a much larger budget on Discovery. Of course there was quite some technological progress, but even when compared to modern shows, Discovery is really outstanding.

    BTW, does anyone speak Klingon and knows the meaning of Tenavik? L’Rell said that it is a good name for their son, and I wonder what she means by that.

    • #2614
      Jules Sherred
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      I’m a little behind starting writing my post, so you timing is perfect, Ani!

      Totally agree about the those scenes with Culber and Stamets in the canteen. That sucked the air out of my chest. But after Reno gave that talk to Stamets, I hope he gets his head out of his arse.

      As for the Borg, I just want to say one thing: Part of Control was in Airium before she was sent off into the depths of space. I’m not convinced she is actually dead and I still maintain she will eventually become the Borg Queen. Also, we don’t really know that the Borg originate in the Delta Quadrant. That just becomes their eventual home-base quadrant, for lack of a better word.

      I know some people will have issue if this turns out to be the Borg origin story, but as I said in a previous week, I’m thankful for it because it finally it’s canon and people can stop referencing novels and getting out of joint when people point out the novels are not canon.

      "Logic Is The Beginning Of Wisdom, Not The End." -Leonard Nimoy

  • #2615
    Ani Hatzis
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    Good point with Airium, yes, maybe Airium and this part of Control survive and become the Borg queen.

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